18 February 1999 (uploaded
18 February 1999)
Just read Mickel's dialogue
with DeMause, Mickel's article
on drugs, and many of the other postings available on this website.
I remember the harsh feeling of the generation
gap in the Sixties and Seventies. One of my girlfriends' father wanted
to show me how wrong it was to be in the anti-war movement so he got a
butcher knife and acted like he was going to kill me. When Martin
Luther King was killed my dad said, "Good they got another nigger."
The working class fathers would drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes and
try to attack their sons and daughters who were being inspired by such
thoughts as "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came. . . . " These
thoughts were shared through the haze of pot smoke. My mom, whose
generation votes, said, "I think they should take all the drug-pushers
and put them on an island and shoot them."
Alcohol suppresses fear, tobacco suppresses
anger, pot suppresses sadness, cocaine allows you to not feel your heart,
speed brings up traumatic memory which people tend to sexualize, and Ecstasy
gives your heart big jolts of energy, while LSD and other hallucinogens
reveal the vast spiritual nature of reality. I don't know what crack
does, and I think heroin returns people to the womb.
Prisons are getting more money than colleges.
Thirty percent of the Black males between the ages of 18 to 30 are either
in prison, on parole, or are on probation. A friend of mine from
East Palo Alto was sent to jail, and when he got there he realized that
all of his friends from his little league team except two were inside and
all of his buddies from cub scouts were inside except for one! When
he got out he tried to get some of the social service money to aid his
community and discovered it was all being funneled into drug programs in
White neighborhoods.
Let's talk about the pre- and perinatal causes
of the drug war. Let's talk about the psychohistorical uses of the
drug war.
Drugs could be legalized. Drugs could
be medicine. Nobody gets out of the twentieth century without doing
some drug. Why are we criminalizing so many people for drugs, and
why are we making such a huge prison industry? Why are we keeping
it secret and hiding it?
I really like that psychohistory has opened
up to discussion of the divine. In the Fifties it wasn't polite to
ask people about religion or politics.
What do we feel guilty about, what are we ashamed
of, what are we hiding ?
I was born in 1952. I use sex, drugs,
rocknroll, spirituality, astrology, sugar, alcohol, fasting, science, prayer,
affirmations, rebirthing. In my life, the weakest place is the most
defended place, whatever I am embarrassed about or ashamed of.
Last night's dreams made me realize that what
I was ashamed of was that I didn't want to grow up.
Denise in SF
djudson@sfsu.edu
Psychohistory Dialogue Subsection
9 February 1999 and ongoing (portions uploaded
on 19, 21, 22, 23, and 24 February 1999)
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Note:
Due to the length of this dialogue, it has
a page of its own. It can be accessed by clicking on the title above
or on here.
Re:
Apocalypse,
Or New Age? book: A Hopeful Vision; I Read It Laughing; It
Looks At the Present Without Fear, Etc.
2 February 1999 (uploaded
5 February 1999)
Hi!
I read your book and I am mixing it up with
Angela Davis and another book called "In the Absence of the Sacred" to
create the mind I need to survive at the moment.
You are absolutely right in your assertions,
and you bring us to the edge and hint at the Divine at the last moment.
It is a very hopeful vision and I read it all laughing actually, which
is astounding considering. I want it to be in the currency of our
times. Now.
I wonder if Soros, the millionaire who funded
the Medical Marijuana campaign would publish it. I would if I could.
I have been thinking a lot about social change.
My personal life is brilliantly chaotic. I turned down the $40 thousand
a year job at Headstart and I am working around the corner at the Pacific
Cafe so I can have free time. School is really fun so far.
I got into a class called Juvenile Justice about the condition of children
between the ages of 10-18 who are labeled criminal.
If there is something I would add into your
book it would be the perspective of the sexual and a little more clarification
of the dark without fear.
That is what is so great about your book:
It looks at the present without fear. Or maybe that is my book.
I am really wanting to connect the dots to the Hopi Vision of America,
and the Woman of Color perspective . . . looking into the heart of darkness,
looking into the places we create that hurt people the most, to alleviate
some of the suffering.
My fourteen-year-old daughter and her friends
are experiencing their BPM I states without drugs so far; several of the
children I know in Colorado are doing hard drugs at 14.
The Drug War has given the cops so much money
it is intense! My main fear is of that reality. I am afraid
of the cops and the military using shame and guilt about fear and sex and
drugs. I mean, shit man, 30% of the black men between the ages of
18-30 are incarcerated, or on probation or parole.
Your book might need a little more of the dark.
You help us understand the dark without guilt. Shame and guilt are
the most corruptible places.
What I mean is that is how systems can control
you in groups by knowing and playing on those scary unknowns.
For example, people who do speed get all this
information that might lead them to healing the sexual traumas of their
childhood, but they interpret it to mean weird things like they are gay
or they want a whole lot of people watching them have sex when actually
they are remembering being in a pre- and perinatal state. The point
that simply touching a newborn's mouth in an ungentle way can be experienced
as trauma is so very important.
I love using lyrics to juxtaposition thoughts
at the speed of light.
I could go on forever.
Love,
Denise Judson
djudson@sfsu.edu
5 February 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
I love your writing. I also like that
you read my book with enough understanding to be able to give me genuine
feedback on it (e.g., "your book might need a little more of the dark").
I am delighted that you read it laughing.
Looking at the present without fear may be your book, too, but you definitely
have it right that that is what my book is about. It is exactly right.
If I want to do anything with this book, it is to tell people to "chill,"
everything's coming down just the way it's supposed to, don't freak, go
with the flow (I just realized that I'm saying the kinds of things you
would to someone on acid who is having a bad trip! Wow! There's
a thought! Is it possible that we as a society are like doing a collective
freaking out like on acid? That would follow from the "therapeutic
carbon-dioxide chamber" and "Air Pollution as a Psychedelic"!).
Anyway, to continue, what I would like people
to get out of the book is to lighten up already. I'm damn tired of
hearing how terrible it all is! It's only terrible right now if you
are invested in the old paradigm. For the rest of us, it's OUR time.
It's the Abbie Hoffman age, with Swami Robinwilliamsananda, Guru Tomhank-tsu,
Rosakrishnarosannadanna, and Generous Mai deGeneres.
In fact, I am changing to where I would
rather write, and do, comedy and sing than write, read, or present philosophy
or metaphysics. The psychohistory List Service as well as the others
I subscribe to are so much head-tripping and freaking out in fear that
I hardly want to look at them, except to see when something besides the
intellectual or trivial might pop up in them.
Love,
Mickel
Glimmerings
From the Millennial (Echo) Generation
4 February 1999 (uploaded
5 February 1999)
My daughter and her friends (age 14) wrote a list
of who is cool and who is not cool. Coolest is Afro-American and
least cool is white. Second coolest is Latino and second least coolest
is Russian. I was wondering why they scapegoat the Russians.
Russian kids are least likely to be in a diverse hangout crowd in the 14-year-old
crowd in San Francisco.
Love,
Denise Judson
djudson@sfsu.edu
5 February 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Very interesting. Sounds like a REAL
"changing of the generational guard." It also somewhat supports studies
I referred to in the book, Apocalypse,
Or New Age?, which revealed that the two greatest issues of
concern for the upcoming Echo Generation (also referred to as the Millennial
Generation) -- i.e., the children of Sixties Generation parents like yourself
-- are racism and the environment.
And while this kind of mild "reverse racism"
might not be considered much of an improvement, it is very significant
when you consider that the adolescents making this judgment are White.
By this I mean that they show the same kind of tendency to self-criticism
rather than scapegoating, which, as I said in my book, characterized Sixties
Youth and the generations following them, and which is a sign of closeness
to the perinatal, as well as a positive sign in that it is likely to lead
to less acting out on others and more "inner work."
Thanks for sharing.
Love,
Mickel
"From the Mouths
of (Primal) Babes"
WebGuy Note: The following quotes were
sent to me by Anna Schertell, a former student of mine at Sonoma State
University. She was in the first class I taught there in Pre- and
Perinatal Psychology. Child-caring (parenting) in the most evolved
way -- the way described by Lloyd deMause as the helping mode, in
which the child is encouraged to bring out and express their potentials,
talents, and spontaneity, and in which their natural exuberance and sensitivity
is not squashed or repressed out of them -- was of course an important
point brought out in the course. Several of my students from those
classes have subsequently had children, and they have written me, often
with pictures of their children, to thank me for what they learned in their
class, which allowed them the wisdom to choose a natural birth and bonding
with their children and to raise their child with love and respect for
their child's innate goodness and wisdom.
These children, like the others that are
currently being parented in the respectful and loving helping mode, are
remarkable children, even from an outsider's perspective. I wish
to include these remarks, made by Anna's little girl, Kendra, when she
was four, as an example of that innate wisdom and to share the pure joy
and hilarity of reading the unadulterated words of a child.
2 February 1999 (uploaded
5 February 1999)
Dear Mickel,
From time to time, I write down quotes of Kendra
and sometimes share them with others. I thought you'd enjoy these:
Kendra: "Ken died."
Dad:
"Oh, I'm sorry!"
Kendra: "YOU didn't kill
him."
Kendra: "Just what I needed!"
(After being put in time-out.)
Kendra: "Stop it, Bozo!"
(In response to any car horn.)
Kendra: "Now I know I have
a heart because it's breaking." (Favorite line from "Wizard of Oz")
Kendra on the phone: "I was
watching Aladdin and Jasmine, and Jafar hit his face. That's an ugly
scene, huh?"
Kendra: "You were putting
me in time-out for my nakedness."
Mom:
"No."
Kendra: "Because I went
outside with my vagina."
Kendra: "It isn't fair."
Mom:
"Yes it is."
Kendra: "It isn't perfectly
fair."
Kendra: "I don't feel well,
so just back off."
Dad:
"Well, then maybe you should go to bed."
Kendra: "No, I'm just stressed
out."
Kendra: "Stop saying that
you're a Republican."
Dad:
"Why am I not a Republican?"
Kendra: "Because you're
a working man."
These are absolutely true! These are
from last year when she was four. She definitely speaks her mind!
Just wanted to share our enjoyment of her.
Anna
Suggestion for "Cooling" World "Hot-Spots"
25 January 1999 (uploaded
26 January 1999)
In this age of instant communication and televised
international event coverage, I have a suggestion which would include highly
informative and electrifying television/web coverage which could help to
ameliorate some of the strife in various world trouble spots. Possibly
sponsored by the UN, or other groups which are interested in promoting
dialog, in centers of troubled areas town-hall-type meetings (such as have
been made popular by President Clinton) could be organized to allow regular,
everyday people who represent the various sides in their controversies
to speak and dialog on live, international television.
Strict security would make sure that no weapons
would be allowed in the venue, but there would be no holds barred on what
these people could say so that all issues could be expressed as well as
any suggestions for working out these issues. In coordination with
these meetings, a web-page could be dedicated to the project with transcripts
of the meetings and a forum for anyone to respond with their comments and
suggestions, possibly including a live chat room. Alongside these
town meetings, videoconferences could be arranged to air live on international
television for leaders of the various groups in the controversies.
The transcripts of these videoconferences and opportunities for comment/suggestions
could also be provided on the web-page.
Laurie Corzett
corzett@law.harvard.edu
26 January 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Sounds fascinating, Laurie. I've taken
the liberty to post your idea with the psychohistory ListService that I
subscribe to. Now, if someone would like to help by forwarding this
idea to the e-mails of people in the U.N., the U.S. Congress, and in Clinton's
administration, maybe someone will see the potential in this idea and propose
it in areas of influence where it could be aired.
What I like most about your idea is that
it takes advantage of the momentum we already have for world-wide voyeurism
and participatory or vicarious psychodrama shared by a world audience.
It takes this somewhat sordid, although I think overly criticized, fascination
that people have for viewing the real events of life from behind the safety
of the TV or monitor screen and makes use of it for the betterment of the
world.
Quite an idea. It's certainly where
we are headed. And I think you would agree that exposure and airing
of the problems of the world's oppressed peoples has been the major factor
in the progress we've seen in the last decade (e.g., the collapse of the
Soviet Union, the end of apartheid in South Africa, the overthrow of the
Haitian dictators and restoration of democracy, and so on). So why
not actively harness this force.
I have to admit that it takes my suggestion
-- as expressed in Chapter Thirteen
of my book Apocalypse,
Or New Age? -- that talk shows are the collective working out of
repressed materials in a way that our society has more access to its underlying
unconscious darkness and is therefore less likely to act it out in a harmful
way and does it one better by suggesting we apply it on a global scale,
not just a societal one. Fascinating.
Is anyone listening? Can anyone help
by passing this along?
Re: "Attack
on Privacy"; An Icelander's View of
Iraq War and Attacks on Clinton
4 January 1999 (uploaded 23
January 1999)
Greetings from my heart Mickel,
I just finished reading your musepaper about
the support of president Clinton by the American people and found it, as
with all your writings, very good and enlightening. I was also grateful
for your few words about Saddam and his likes, and liked the nice way you
excused and even appreciated the naiveté of those who condemn actions
against him. I am sure that at least some (and excepting of course
the Republican hounds) do it out of noble motives. It only shows
how short is human memory and how great the need to deny and repress the
ugly and uncomfortable in our experience.
Most people here in Iceland just couldn't understand
the obsession and perverse tenacity with which the political establishment
and the media hounded Bill Clinton. But I am sure that what was at
stake was big (and ugly) political and money interests, rather than where
he touched Monika.
Personal news from me: More and more
the yearning is getting stronger in me for something like
what I experienced that summer of 1994 when
I began my "primal search," attended the IPA convention, and met you and
other wonderful people in Canada and the US. In many ways it changed
me and I know that I benefited a lot. But I feel that I need to and
want to go further and relight the fires and reenter the pools of calm
and inner peace which came alive during those months. I will try
to do this most likely in the Czech Republic, where I met some good people
who work in this field. America is also drawing me, but it seems
less practical at the moment.
With warm wishes to you, Tree Brother, and
to Mary Lynn,
Jiri Berger
jiri@nett.is
23 January 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Jiri,
It's so good to hear from you and to get
an "outsider's" take on the political developments here in the US.
Thanks also for sharing your testimonial
on how accessing your feelings has benefited you.
Mary Lynn and I, as always, send our love,
Tree Brother.
Mickel Adzema
20 December 1998 (uploaded
23 January 1999)
I found your essay to be quite right on the mark,
and I have had the same thoughts myself for decades. I used to imagine
an ad hoc group in the '70s called "The Old Ladies' Slowdown," where the
male and female ole ladies would get in front of you to slow down the inevitable
change. I didn't realize it'd be around for 20+ years.
David G. Porter
Charles Ives scholar
dgporter@pacbell.net
21 December 1998 (uploaded 23 January 1999)
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Thanks for the compliment and for sharing
your comments .
Warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
David Porter Responds: WWII
Generation Imposed Their Ideas
21 December 1998 (uploaded
23 January 1999)
How long had you been working on these essays?
Like I said before, I'd had similar ideas about the WWII (GI-Gen) people
and the way they made sure their ways were imposed on everyone younger
over the last 40 years (TV in the '60s SUCKED!). And I kept wondering
where the "Echo" Generation
was.
Sometimes I think that the GI-Gen felt it was
a slap in their parents' faces when the younger Boomers rebelled against
that Victorian morality. I've posted these ideas on Usenet but I
haven't collected them in a readily accessible file.
David G. Porter
Charles Ives scholar
dgporter@pacbell.net
23 January 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
I've been writing about these generational
differences since 1970 when I wrote my first (unpublished) book titled,
The
Slaying of the Mother: Mysticism and Modern Youth.
But, having experienced the way the World-War-Two
Generation created the Big Lie of the "Conservative Backlash" in the early
1970s, and having experienced the way the media that they own changed history
by refusing to accurately report what actually happened on Moratorium Day
November 15th, 1969, when over a million people came to Washington, D.C.
to protest the war, as well as having participated in a student takeover
of an administration building on my college campus in 1970 where documents
were uncovered that showed that World-War-Two Generation alumni were pressuring
my college to change its curricula and fire some of its professors or else
they would stop supporting the college with their contributions, I have
had these ideas on my mind for a long time, noticing the way the media
has been manipulating public opinion ever since to scapegoat my generation
and to change the history of what we did and who we are.
I've waited a long time for my generation
to get power in this country -- if nothing else so that we could correct
the record -- much longer than I ever thought I would have to. But
for the last eight years I have seen signs that our time has come.
And that was when I began researching a book, still in progress, that I
will soon be uploading onto this website that is tentatively titled The
Once and Future Generation: "Regression," Mysticism, and "My Generation."
So stay tuned. And I would welcome
any more comments you would have on these subjects, and of course feedback
on the book, as I begin uploading it chapter by chapter. Thanks again
for sharing.
Warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
18 December 1998 (uploaded
18 December 1998)
I just read your article "It's the Attack
on Privacy, Stupid!" which Julienne posted to the Chaos list. It
says exactly what I have been feeling all along! Thank you for this
highly readable summing up of these issues.
For my holiday present to you (that is, anyone
who cares to receive it), check out:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/8401
Laurie Corzett
corzett@law.harvard.edu
18 December 1998
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Thanks so much for your comments of support!
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that feels this way; I had my trepidation
in posting the article, seeing my colleagues take the "holier than thou"
route, just as if they had been Republicans.
Thanks also for the holiday present!
I checked out your site of poems . . . very nice, and I hope others will
take advantage of the gift of your poetry by clicking on the link above.
Warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
Lloyd deMause and Mickel Adzema Dialogue
Re:
Hope, Pessimism, Helping Mode, and Apocalypse or New Age
18 November 1998 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[From Mickel Adzema (WebGuy)]:
Dear Lloyd,
As I mentioned when I gave you my title
for the 1999 International Psychohistorical Association convention, "Human
Nature and Birth," I am considering other possibilities, more topical ones.
What it comes down to is that I find I am
caught up in working on the work-in-progress that I have tentatively titled,
The
Once and Future Generation: Regression, Mysticism, and "My Generation."
I directed you to a couple of "MusePapers" I wrote earlier this year on Generational
Cultures and posted on my website. Currently, I am writing more
in that vein. I have uploaded onto my website Part One of a MusePaper
titled "Move Over, World War Two Generation,
The Sixties Generation Has Arrived! An Essay Review of the Movie,
'Pleasantville.'" As you will see on the bottom of it,
I link to two other "MusePapers" where I make different parts of this argument
on generational cultures and a current "changing of the guard," so to speak.
So my interests have shifted, spurred no
doubt by unparalleled current events such as the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal
and the recent Democratic wins in the elections. I am thinking I
am more likely to have juice around a topic something like "Generational
Cultures: A Psychohistorical Look at America's Thirty-Years' Culture
War" to present at our annual 1999 gathering of the International Psychohistorical
Association.
What do you think? I'd be interested
in any thoughts or feedback you might have on this. I think you know
me better than to think that I am envisioning some kind of self-aggrandizing,
whoopee we've won, to hell with you, type diatribe. But since my
titles (e.g., "Move Over . . ., etc.) might give that impression, I thought
I should point out that I allow that kind of provocative confrontational
wording on my website -- call it a kind of generational prerogative I am
asserting, if you will.
However, the presentation I envision is
actually more balanced and analytical than that. My Part
Two of "Move Over . . .," which should be uploaded in a few days or
so [Note: It is currently up.], is more sympathetic and understanding of
the WWII Generation in that it talks about the injustices suffered by the
World War Two Generation in being forced to give up their idealism through
being enlisted into fighting World War II -- a war not of their making
-- in their youths (as typified in the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life"
-- which from this viewpoint is a rationalization of the path onto which
they were forced). And how this could easily lead them to envy and
then wage "war" against a generation who because of their sacrifice were
allowed to have their dreams and youthful ideals (John Updike's The
Centaur makes the second part of this point). And of course I
point out that generational consciousnesses are not strictly conscribed
by age categories (any more than psychogenic stages are) -- with WWII consciousness
existing among some of those of the Sixties and other generations as well
as liberal, Sixties Generation--mindedness occurring among some of the
World War Two (and other generations) as well.
The presentation I envision under the title
"Generational Cultures: A Psychohistorical Look at America's Thirty-Years'
Culture War" would bring together a number of points I have made on my
site in the MusePapers there, framed in the perspectives mapped out in
my "The Scenery of Healing" and
"The Emerging Perinatal Unconscious,"
and no doubt peppered with contemporary political/social events as examples
-- like the scandal and the election -- and of which I will probably have
an unlimited supply continuing right up to the days of the convention,
from the looks of the way things are continuing politically at present.
I'll look forward to hearing from you on
this.
Regards,
Mickel
mickel@primalspirit.com
18 November 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
Either title is fine with me. As to your
thesis, as you know I don't talk about "generations" or "cohorts," but
instead "psychoclasses" and childrearing modes, and I don't see so many
"helping mode" people around yet. Anyway, I'll look forward to hearing
your paper at the IPA convention.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
Hope Versus Pessimism
Re: Advance to Helping-Mode of Parenting
19 November 1998 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[Mickel Adzema's Response:]
Lloyd:
Thanks for responding so promptly.
I'm confused however, why "cohorts"?
I don't use that either. Also I hope you would agree that psychoclasses
have something to do with generations, especially in the last few decades.
At any rate it is a point I will be bringing out in Part
Two of my "Move Over, WWII Generation . . ." In any case, I think
you are open to other ways of framing psychohistory. Certainly your journal
has other viewpoints and terms than your own; some of which I heartily
disagree with -- the psychoanalytic ones for example -- and as you once
said in response to my statement that it seemed that many of the articles
did not acknowledge or be aware of your contributions "unfortunately, most
have not read . . . deMause" -- which was surprising to me. But it
certainly gave me the impression that you were not seeking to harness the
movement along your lines solely.
I hope I didn't "pull your chain" with my
title about the "WWII Generation." I think of you as much more open-minded
than that, and others who know you think the same.
Finally, there is one sentence I did understand,
and I am sorry to hear your pessimism, although I understand it.
When I "went home again" for a year and a half to live in Pennsylvania
in the mid80s, after a short time I could not wait to get back to the West
Coast. This was because of the consciousness of the people back East.
I also traveled frequently to New York and other places on the East Coast,
and I can only say that your statement that you "don't see many 'helping
mode' people around yet" can be attributed to the circles in which you
travel and your part of the country apparently. I know predominantly
helping-mode people among both my professional colleagues and the ordinary
folks in my neighborhood here in California. In fact, I have to say
that, with all their faults, my own brothers and sisters, who have disappointed
me immensely in their Republican political stances and their sometimes
strict religious stances, have without a doubt raised their children in
the helping mode. They can be classified that way according to the
definition you have used for that mode.
So it is discouraging to hear the author
of such an optimistic theory as you have presented writing something that
essentially is saying something like you were mistaken. I fear I
have more faith in your theory than you do!??
I've noticed you're being -- unfairly in
my opinion -- under attack both theoretically and personally at times in
some of the List Service postings. I hope your pessimistic view is
just a reaction to that.
At any rate, I wish you could see the things
I am seeing out here in California, which give me much hope.
Enough for now.
Mickel Adzema
mickel@primalspirit.com
19 November 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
You wrote:
I'm confused however, why "cohorts"?
Oh, that's the term now regularly used by historians
and others for generations.
I don't use that either. Also I hope
you would agree that psychoclasses have something to do with generations,
especially in the last few decades.
Sure, psychoclasses are only reached by new
generations.
At any rate it is a point I will be bringing
out in Part Two of my "Move Over,
WWII Generation..." In any case, I think you are open to other
ways of framing psychohistory. Certainly your journal has other viewpoints
and terms than your own; some of which I heartily disagree with -- the
psychoanalytic ones for example -- and as you once said in response to
my statement that it seemed that many of the articles did not acknowledge
or be aware of your contributions: "unfortunately, most have not read .
. . deMause" -- which was surprising to me. But it certainly gave
me the impression that you were not seeking to harness the movement along
your lines solely.
I don't have a "movement" at all. Almost
no one agrees with most of my ideas. I just publish a journal and
run a convention that provides a platform for thinking about any kind of
psychohistory at all, since no place else does.
I hope I didn't "pull your chain" with my
title about the "WWII Generation." I think of you as much more open-minded
than that, and others who know you think the same.
Didn't "pull my chain" at all. I surely
pray you are right and my pessimism is wrong.
Finally, there is one sentence I did understand,
and I am sorry to hear your pessimism, although I understand it.
When I "went home again" for a year and a half to live in Pennsylvania
in the mid80s, after a short time I could not wait to get back to the West
Coast. This was because of the consciousness of the people back East.
I also traveled frequently to New York and other places on the East Coast,
and I can only say that your statement that you "don't see many 'helping
mode' people around yet" can be attributed to the circles in which you
travel and your part of the country apparently. I know predominantly
helping-mode people among both my professional colleagues and the ordinary
folks in my neighborhood here in California. In fact, I have to say
that, with all their faults, my own brothers and sisters, who have disappointed
me immensely in their Republican political stances and their sometimes
strict religious stances, have without a doubt raised their children in
the helping mode. They can be classified that way according to the
definition you have used for that mode.
I only go by evidence. Which is that
the majority of Americans still hit their children, most batter them, sexual
abuse is perhaps a third of all children here, emotional abuse is rife.
But perhaps your evidence is different. I'll be fascinated to hear
it in your presentation.
So it is discouraging to hear the author,
of such an optimistic theory as you have presented, writing something that
essentially is saying something like you were mistaken. I fear I
have more faith in your theory than you do!??
My theory doesn't say progress is fast.
My opinions are formed more by the glacial slowness of evolution in past
centuries.
I've noticed you're being -- unfairly in
my opinion -- under attack both theoretically and personally at times in
some of the List Service postings. I hope your pessimistic view is
just a reaction to that.
No, I don't mind the listservice flack.
At least they don't do what other listservices (mainly childhood history)
have done -- censor my postings and even ask me to leave because I'm upsetting
people so much.
At any rate, I wish you could see the things
I am seeing out here in California, which give me much hope.
Hope I have. Evidence of massive childrearing
change I don't have.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
19 November 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
Do check out the evidence given in Murray Strauss's
book Beating the Devil Out of Them: Corporal Punishment in American
Families that shows 90 percent of parents still use corporal punishment
regularly.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
Hopeful Beginnings/ Movement/
Culture War Versus "My Pessimism . . . Is Based on More Than You Imagine."
30 November 1998 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[Mickel Adzema's Response:]
Lloyd:
You wrote:
As to your thesis, as you know I don't
talk about "generations" or "cohorts," but "psychoclasses" and childrearing
modes, and I don't see so many "helping mode" people around yet.
I responded:
Finally, there is one sentence I did understand,
and I am sorry to hear your pessimism, although I understand it.
When I "went home again" for a year and a half to live in Pennsylvania
in the mid80s, after a short time I could not wait to get back to the West
Coast. This was because of the consciousness of the people back East.
I also traveled frequently to New York and other places on the East Coast,
and I can only say that your statement that you "don't see many 'helping
mode' people around yet" can be attributed to the circles in which you
travel and your part of the country apparently. I know predominantly
helping-mode people among both my professional colleagues and the ordinary
folks in my neighborhood here in California. In fact, I have to say
that, with all their faults, my own brothers and sisters, who have disappointed
me immensely in their Republican political stances and their sometimes
strict religious stances, have without a doubt raised their children in
the helping mode. They can be classified that way according to the
definition you have used for that mode.
You responded:
I only go by evidence. Which is that the
majority of Americans still hit their children, most batter them, sexual
abuse is perhaps a third of all children here, emotional abuse is rife.
But perhaps your evidence is different. I'll be fascinated to hear it in
your presentation.
My response:
Your evidence, stated above concerning
the "majority" of Americans, does not support your statement -- to which
I replied -- that you "don't see many 'helping mode' people around yet."
I'm sure you can see the difference, for you yourself state that all psychoclasses
and modes of childrearing will exist simultaneously and that only a minority
will originally exhibit the more evolved mode of child-rearing. Bluntly
put, of course the majority of Americans can hit their children and at
the same time there be many helping-mode people around (they simply don't
have to be the "majority"). So I will not be presenting any evidence
contrary to yours, for I will be talking about a change that is in its
beginning stages and is occurring (as I stated in my e-mail, among my colleagues,
but also in California) now on the growing edge of our society, which is
hopeful because it also happens to be the most influential segment of our
society, so there is hope that your statistics will change for the good,
and perhaps a lot faster than you expect.
You take your evidence for "a majority"
and deduce from that there is not many helping people around yet.
The one simply does not lead to the other, and is what I mean by a pessimism
I am picking up. In fact, if there were such a condition -- "a majority"
doing one thing while "a lot" of others doing something else -- you just
might have the deep division in our culture that I am referring to when
I talk about the thirty-years' "Culture War" that I have been writing
about and that I want to talk about at the convention.
I could also say something about your denial
that you have little following or are part of a movement. Being a
historian, I can see why you might have the connotation of "Movement" when
I write "movement." Let's just say that I am of a different generation
that has a different connotation for "movement" -- we define any changes
in society in a particular direction that have potential to radically change
society as a "movement." I know how my generation connotes "movement"
both because I have been an active participant in my generation as well
as having been a political activist. I could say lots more, but I
have other things to attend to after being away for so long, but I want
you to know that I have talked to others in my generation (Denise Judson,
for example) and they do not share your modest assessment of either yourself
or your ideas' impact on society (and they would call what you are involved
in a "movement"). I hope that we will have a chance to talk at the
convention. I find that so much that is written over e-mails and
on ListServices is so much intellectual argumentation stemming largely
from differences in connotations that people have -- and rapid cultural
change along with an increasing cultural diversity in our society can make
for much muddied waters when it comes to communication using words alone.
Warm regards,
Mickel
mickel@primalspirit.com
1 December 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
There will be at IPA 99 about six of the younger
"new psychoclass" psychohistorians present, and one of them, Adam Green,
is a young grad student from Canada, now head of our Institute for Psychohistory
Canadian branch. I have asked Adam to be a guest editor of an issue
of the Journal,
perhaps coming out two years from now, that
will be called something like "Young Psychohistorians Issue," that will
feature you and another seven or eight young psychohistorians who sort
of accept what I have to say and are now picking up the ball and carrying
it in their own directions. I hope you'll infuse the meeting (on
Saturday at my home, after the convention) with an espirit based on your
"generational cultures" ideas.
As to my pessimism, it is based on more than
you imagine. We now have after 26 years less subscribers to the Journal
than we had at the beginning (1700), after me digging into my pocket to
the tune of over a half million dollars of after-tax income from my 52
years of 16-hour-days working for a
living. The IPA still needs to have
me as President (and Treasurer) after 22 years or it will collapse (Jerry
Atlas was President and got only 3 speakers and was about to cancel the
convention two years ago until I stepped in). Worse, of the 150 people
at the convention, there are only perhaps a dozen who accept any part of
my psychogenic theory at all; most, like Paul Elovitz and most of the rest
of them, even refused to use any of my work in their psychohistory courses.
There used to be five colleges
around the world who used my Foundations
of Psychohistory in their psychohistory courses, now there is only
one. Books on psychohistory carefully avoid even mentioning me.
Articles on the history of childhood likewise. Meanwhile my continuing
research keeps getting more and more evidence for my thesis (my opening
sentence for my new book "Childhood and History" reads:
"The purpose of this book is to demonstrate how the ultimate source of
human suffering has been a holocaust of children throughout history --
how billions of innocent children have been routinely killed, rejected,
bound, raped, beaten, and tortured by their parents and caretakers, and
then when they are adults have inflicted upon others the traumas they have
experienced."
All
of which is to say it isn't my pessimism that accounts for the total rejection
of my work, but the radical nature of what I have found. I just want
to finish writing Childhood and History over the next few years
so the full impact of what I've found can be available, even though only
in books stored in my bedroom, since no one will publish me and I have
never been sold in a bookstore and am in few libraries. The rejection
is total; my last book, on Reagan, didn't get a single review anywhere
from the 380 review copies I sent out and $100,000 marketing money I spent.
I do not expect in the near future to have more than a handful of
readers. Which is why I give away my new book on my webpage <www.psychohistory.com>
to anyone who wants it.
As for the new psychoclass, I agree helping-mode
psychoclass parents are the bulk of my friends here on the West Side of
Manhattan. But they are still a small percentage of the U.S. parents.
That's all I meant.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
Hopeful Signs from TV
& Politics; "Times a' Changin'"; Give My Generation a Chance
26 January 1999 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[Mickel Adzema's Response:]
Hi Lloyd.
Wow. I can sure understand you pessimism
now. However, I agree totally with your idea of "giving it away"
on your website. Forget the money. The ideas need to be out
there, period. You've done your job. And it may be, like so
many others, Jung for example, that you will only be recognized for your
contributions near the end of your life, or after.
But I am not as pessimistic as you.
Check this out: I am getting, like, six to eight thousand hits a
month at my website at this point. I have many articles by many different
authors on the site. The second most popular article, of all of them,
is yours on "The History of Childhood
As the History of Child Abuse." And the third most popular article
is a distant third -- like only a little more than half of the hits your
piece is getting. And your article is very close to and is creeping
up on being the most popular. (The most popular article is one by
my wife on "Sathya Sai Baba, Avatar,"
in case you're wondering.)
Also, colleagues of my generation respect
your work more than you realize.
I suggest you have patience and wait for
society to catch up to you. After all, the times are a' changin'.
Who would have ever predicted that Sixties Generation president, Bill Clinton,
while on trial in the Senate for impeachment, would receive higher approval
ratings than even Reagan and Eisenhower!?
I highly suggest that, if you get a chance,
you read my just completed book, Apocalypse,
Or New Age? The Emerging Perinatal Unconscious, which I am making
available for free on my website. It is, of course, a book-length
version of the ideas I presented at the 1996 IPA convention titled "The
Emerging Perinatal Unconscious: Consciousness Evolution or Apocalypse?"
I think you will find stuff in it to give you optimism. Also, since
I will be self-publishing it in the next few months unless I get an offer
soon from a publisher, I would appreciate any feedback from you on it.
I would value getting your feedback before I do the final version prior
to publication.
I also hope that you have read my "Generations"
series. They also give evidence for optimism.
I just wish you wouldn't place so much importance
on the opinions of those of your generation and a little after. For
you are beyond them. So how can you expect them to understand you?
Give my generation a chance, will you? I tell you, when I was a political
activist in Oregon in the mid-80s, my activist friend was telling me about
your book Reagan's America. We even wrote up something about
it in our publication. You are known of in quarters of which you
are not aware, I believe.
Nonetheless, thanks for the elaborate explanation
of your history and so on. It is sobering and depressing, no doubt
about it. But my feeling is that things are changing rapidly in our
direction, very fast, considering Clinton's poll approval ratings, for
one thing.
You wrote:
As for the new psychoclass, I agree helping-mode
psychoclass parents are the bulk of my friends here on the West Side of
Manhattan. But they are still a small percentage of the U.S. parents.
That's all I meant.
I disagree that they are a "small percentage."
I may be wrong, however. But then, it doesn't matter what the percentage
is. Just take a look at how child-caring is presented in the movies
and TV. Almost without exception, the "helping" mode is presented.
Regardless of how parents are treating their children, they are being presented
with a model that is of the "helping mode," and this affects them.
It may make them a little less abusive. It may also make them a little
more guilty when they are abusive. That is, at least, progress.
I think you need to keep in mind the old AA motto: "Progress, not
perfection."
And that, I guess, sums up what I think
are the differences in our perspectives on the issue of whether changes
are happening or not.
For your convenience, here are the url's
to the writings I recommended to you above:
For my recently completed book, Apocalypse,
Or New Age? The Emerging Perinatal Unconscious:
http://www.primalspirit.com/emerging_perinatal_book.htm
For my recent "Generations" articles:
http://www.primalspirit.com/muse_pleasantville.htm
http://www.primalspirit.com/muse_pleasantville_pt2.htm
http://www.primalspirit.com/muse_pleasantville_pt3.htm
I look forward to hearing from you.
As always,
warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
mickel@primalspirit.com
26 January 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
Thanks for the good words. Since I have
thousands of readers of my work both in the Journal and on-line, I'm more
than gratified about the success of my four decades of self-publishing.
I could have just sat and complained I wasn't being accepted by the usual
journals and book publishers, after all. Still, in the 70s there were over
50 courses in psychohistory, many using my work; now there is one academic,
David Beisel, still using my Foundations of Psychohistory in a course.
Not a lot of progress considering I spent far too much of my research and
writing time banging out promotions and setting
type and hawking books and journals, one by
one.
Anyway, you have my permission to cite anything
I've written or e-mailed to you in any way you see fit, edited as you see
fit. And my sincere thanks.
I'll read your sites now and get back to you.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
Popularity
of Child Abuse Info, Not-So-Good News, Psychohistory Listservice
26 January 1999 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[Mickel Adzema's Response:]
Lloyd,
After just sending you the last e-mail,
in which I stated that your article has consistently been the second most
popular piece on my site (over 100 files), I just had to share this with
you.
I've watched since October as your piece,
"The History of Childhood As the History
of Child Abuse," came in second but crept up slowly on the number one
article. It never surpassed the most popular article.
Then I send this e-mail out to you, responding
to you after nearly seven weeks when I received your last e-mail.
A few hours later I check my statistics. Lo and behold, your article
is now officially the most requested article on my site. Hands down.
Funny coincidence.
Weirdly enough, your article has been requested
exactly 666 times, as of today, since 31 August 1998. It would have
to be 666. Even weirder. Mary Lynn's article on Sai Baba is
at 661 requests, as of today. And, dig this, the distant third is
at 371 requests.
So that should give you some indication
of the importance of your ideas. Hell, I've even got a link from
the holotropic breathwork website and several primal therapy websites,
which all refer quite a few visitors, and NO link from your psychohistory
or ANY psychohistory website, and yet your article has received far more
attention than even Stan Grof's article or any other article, including
any of my own.
Plus, consider that the third most requested
article, by Jeannine Parvati Baker, is about ending
circumcision -- another aspect of child abuse. I just had to
tell you this because I believe it really points to people opening up to
the idea of normal childhood as replete with child abuse.
Maybe knowing this stuff will help the next
time you feel pessimistic.
Warm regards, :-)
Mickel
mickel@primalspirit.com
27 January 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
That's good news. However, I just posted
on three different listservices an offer to send my book The History
of Childhood free (I BUY it for $37 each from the paperback publisher),
I got only a dozen requests from the over 300 members, all of them history
of childhood teachers. I sent the books to them, and not one thanked
me for it or acknowledged getting it, so offended were they by the findings
that they all missed in their own research.
Do you belong, by the way, to our Psychohistory
listservice? You should. The 200+ members would benefit from
your viewpoint and you'd be informed about lots of interesting psychohistorical
information, including many postings from myself. Here's how to join:
Join PH-L on the Internet:
PH-L is a psychohistory mailing list, forum, or bulletin board on the Internet.
PH-L is intended as a resource for individuals studying or doing research
in psychohistory in its broadest perspective. It serves as a forum
for scholarly discussions and a clearinghouse for distribution of information
via e-mail.
Members of PH-L can send email messages which will be distributed to other
subscribers and archived for future reference. Subscribers are encouraged
to post questions, comments, or announcements pertaining to work-in-progress,
course materials, bibliographic materials, theories, and ideas about the
current or past emotional life of groups and nations. You can subscribe
to PH-L today by sending an empty e-mail message to <PH-L-subscribe@sooth.com>.
In response, you will be sent an e-mail message requesting a reply.
Upon replying to this message, you will then be on the PH-L list for all
subsequent postings.
[WebGuy's note: This is included for
the benefit of any interested reader who would want to subscribe to this
listservice.]
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
More Good News: Grof, deMause,
and Apocalypse, Or New Age?
-- Ideas of "Crucial Importance To Social and
Cultural Developments Into the New Millennium"
27 January 1999 (uploaded 17 February 1999)
[Mickel Adzema's Response:]
Lloyd,
Don't know if I mentioned this earlier,
but The Animist,
an electronic journal in Australia, discovered the article I presented
at the 1996 International Psychohistorical Association Convention:
"The Emerging Perinatal Unconscious:
Consciousness Evolution of Apocalypse?", which you published in The
Journal of Psychohistory. They discovered it on my website
and asked if they could reprint it. Of course, I said yes, and they
will be publishing it within the next few weeks.
But what I want to share is that, since
then, the editor has been reviewing my site and, guess what, of course
he discovered your work. Here is what he wrote to me tonight:
We've been looking at deMause's
exciting work on birth trauma, violence,
and war for our next edition (also like
his linking of such traumas to
nefarious economic and social policies
in the US). We'd also like to
publish something by Stan Grof
-- especially his essay on planetary survival
into the new millennium . . . now is certainly
the time for that. And then of
course there is the interview re your book
and ideas.
So you can expect to hear from him; his name
is Ian Irvine. By the way, he also feels that my work, especially
the book I've written based on my IPA presentation is very important.
Since I reference you a lot in my work, I think his words about my book
are relevant to the importance he places on your perspective.
He wrote, at one point:
I'll get back to you in regard
to an interview once all the proofing and
release work for this edition is complete
(probably around February). By
the way, how are you going with finding
a publisher for the book? As I've
said before, the extension of Grof's and
Janov's ideas re birth trauma into
the realm of social analysis/interpretations
-- and also re interpretations
of the history (or perhaps we could call
it "archaeology") of the psyche as
a force in cultural/social development
is long overdue, and a knowledge of
such issues is of crucial importance to
social and cultural developments
into the new millennium.
My point is just that, once again, I think
you underestimate my generation's regard for the importance of your work,
as well as others making points similar to you.
Just thought you'd like to know.
As for what you wrote, as reproduced as
follows:
Lloyd deMause wrote:
Since I have thousands of readers of my work
both in the Journal and on-line, I'm more than gratified about the success
of my four decades of self-publishing. I could have just sat and
complained I wasn't being accepted by the usual journals and book publishers,
after all. Still, in the 70s there were over 50 courses in psychohistory,
many using my work; now there is one academic, David Beisel, still using
Foundations
of Psychohistory in a course. Not a lot of progress considering
I spent far too much of my research and writing time banging out promotions
and setting type and hawking books and journals, one by one.
I can see where that would be really disheartening.
To me, it is amazing. I still think there will be a turnaround in
interest, however.
Regards,
Mickel
mickel@primalspirit.com
27 January 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
I'll get a publisher for my Childhood and
History by sending it to around 50 possible publishers plus, as in
my previous books, have a good agent carry it around to everyone he knows.
You should see the stack of rejection notices ("We know deMause; he's part
of the lunatic fringe.") I have for each book in the past.
Lloyd
psychhst@tiac.net
27 January 1998 (uploaded
17 February 1999)
[Lloyd deMause's Response:]
Mickel:
Just finished reading your fine book [Apocalypse,
Or New Age?]. I must say it is the first time I read anyone
use my work in extended fashion where not one time -- even in nuance --
did I feel mis-cited or misunderstood. It is good to know you (and
the others who will attend the Saturday June 5th meeting at my apartment,
the new psychoclass of psychohistorians) are taking the ball and running
with it, each in your own unique directions. I'll put a reference
to your new book in the Journal as part of the "Psychohistory on the Internet"
list. Hopefully it will attract lots of new readers to your webpages.
Lloyd deMause
psychhst@tiac.net
Return to Psychohistory
Mythos
& Logos WebRing & Janus Head: Journal of Interdisciplinary
Studies in Literature, Continental Philosophy, Phenomenological Psychology,
and the Arts
14 October 1998 (uploaded
10 December 1998)
Hello, Michael. You have an excellent collection
of writings -- thank you so much for sharing them with me and the rest
of the web community.
I don't know if you would be interested, but I
ringmaster a web ring, called Mythos & Logos, which features pages
around the themes of your writing. I would love to have your pages
in the ring cue, if you are at all interested.
Here is the URL for the Mythos & Logos
Ring home page: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/2967/mythoslogosring.html
Also, I co-edit an e-journal, Janus Head:
Journal of Interdisciplinary Studies in Literature, Continental Philosophy,
Phenomenological Psychology, and the Arts, run out of Duquesne University.
You might find it to be of interest, and may even consider submitting to
it. Here's the URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Janus_Head/jhindex.htm
Take care,
Brent Dean Robbins
bdeanrob@sgi.net
10 December 1998
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Dear Brent,
Thanks for your compliments on my site.
I want you to know that I submitted my site to your ring.
I will check out the Janus Head site.
There's a strange coincidence here. I once applied and was accepted
to a graduate program at Duquesne University that was around phenomenological
psychology, I believe. And I believe I heard of Janus Head even at
that time. But that was over a decade ago. I am aware of the
wonderful program at Duquesne, and the warm reception I received in response
to my application for graduate studies there gave me a good feeling about
the people and what is going on there. Ah, the road not taken. .
. . I ended up accepting admission into a doctoral program
at the University of California at San Diego in psychological anthropology,
primarily for financial reasons -- they gave me a teaching assistantship
and a partial research assistantship. In retrospect, I probably
would have been happier at Duquesne.
I expect I will submit to Janus Head as
soon as I can get around to it. I am swamped, and that is also the
reason that I have been delayed in responding to your e-mail.
Thanks again for contacting me.
Warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
17 November 1998 (uploaded
21 November 1998)
Mickel,
Right on. I have been desperately
waiting for this point of view.
I found you through Elizabeth
Noble's home page. I was looking for information on twinless
twins in the millennium.
A fellow Sixties Generationer
honors you.
Darlene Chadbourne
chb@cybertours.com
20 November 1998 (uploaded
22 November 1998)
Thank you, Darlene, for letting
me know, and for the compliment. Your response means a lot to me.
warm regards,
Mickel Adzema
Aren't
You Glad You Chose to Come In At This Time?
20 November 1998 (uploaded
22 November 1998)
Mickel
I like your writing and have
downloaded many of your articles. You must love to write. I
am working on my last semester of my bachelor's degree and have been doing
a lot of writing myself. Humanities in our current time is fascinating.
Aren't you glad you chose to come in at this time? Have your read
any of Greg Braden's books -- Awakening to Zero Point and Walking
Between the Worlds?
I am working on concepts of generational
division to do with "the sphere of humanity." Rather than walking
the linear tightrope of fear, becoming the conduit between the above and
below, rejoining what religions and society have separated. I also
work in the holistic healing arts field. The "chb" e-mail is for
Creative Health Balancing.
Happy Holidays, wishing you Light,
Love, and Laughter,
Darlene Chadbourne
chb@cybertours.com
Perhaps
the Most Momentous, Important Times This Planet Has Ever Seen --
WebGuy Response
22 November 1998
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Darlene,
I agree with your enthusiasm
about living in this time. I can't imagine a more exciting or fulfilling
time to have been born into, and I am particularly grateful to have gotten
to be a young man during the glorious Sixties and to have experienced such
a time of extraordinary vision.
I can't say that I have yet
read any of Braden's books, but my wife, Mary Lynn, read Walking Between
the Worlds after receiving it as a gift from a friend, and she said she
liked it very much.
I like what you say about
"becoming the conduit between the above and below, rejoining what religions
and society have separated." It's always heartening for me to hear
the ways that others in "My Generation" are taking up their individual
tasks to midwife the new millennium, and if we are successful, the New
Age, as well.
I am intrigued by the idea
that there are so many people alive at this time -- more humans than has
ever lived on this planet before -- because so many souls want to be here
and participate in or at least witness a change for the good of greater
magnitude than this world has ever seen. I think these times are
momentous for reasons I expound upon in my editorial prologue "Why
'Primal Renaissance'?" and at more length in my book, Primal
Renaissance: The Emerging Millennial Return. I think you
will find these interesting, so you might want to check them out, if you
haven't already. I am uploading the book, chapter by chapter, and
will eventually have the entire book up; I uploaded Chapter
Six earlier today.
My book Apocalypse,
or New Age? The Emerging Perinatal Unconscious also has a lot
to say about the uniqueness of these times, and that too I am uploading
a little at a time, having five chapters up currently. Also my articles, "The
Emerging Perinatal Unconscious" and "The
Scenery of Healing" and Grof's article on this site "Planetary
Survival and Consciousness Evolution" -- all these have a lot to say
about the importance and unprecedented character of our current era.
But what gives me the most
hope of all is that I and my wife believe that an actual Avatar has incarnated
at this time and is living among us, ensuring that the New Age will come
into being. Her articles "Sathya Sai
Baba, Avatar" and "Why Fear When I Am
Here?" give an idea of what I mean. I will be uploading more
of her articles on Sai Baba in the upcoming weeks and months as well.
Anyway, thanks for doing what
you are doing and for being part of the solution . . . and for letting
us know you are out there.
Warm regards and Happy Holidays
to you also,
Mickel Adzema
"Surviving
the Divine: Everyday Life After Spiritual Awakening" -- Can Anyone
Relate?
23 October 1998 (uploaded
28 October 1998)
-
Hello. I searched "history of the unconscious"
for an essay I'm writing and there you were. Good work on your site!
I thought you might be a good person to share something with.
-
Almost three years ago now I had a spontaneous
kundalini awakening that is still wild and primal like a stallion after
all this time. I cannot "meditate" with groups because there's much
loud spontaneous chanting and yelling singing, etc., as soon as I settle
into the now. I'm also not a good fit for a Holotropic setting, I
discovered by inquiring, because those encounters are for bringing up stuff,
not working with what's already so up up up. Also, I've learned through
much experimenting that this energy will conform somewhat to social conventions
but does not respond at all to attempts at direct manipulation. It makes
it very clear who is in control.
So my question is this: Do you know of any
setting for people who are in a process like me to come together and BE
together, without a program or agenda? Even last year's Kundalini Research
Network conference was a bust for that, in my view, and the contacts through
the Spiritual Emergence Network were even worse. I'm not in need
of anything, support or otherwise, but would like more community around
this if it's possible. The benefits of the awakening, and the wisdom
I have been graced with through the experience, not to mention the bliss,
are forever life altering. What is, is fine. But, as a looked
over your site, I was wondering. . . .
Thanks, Howard
HowardCush@aol.com
P.S. I'm in the midst of writing a book about
all this. It's called "Surviving the Divine: Everyday Life After
Spiritual Awakening."
Would
a Kundalini Awakening By Another Name Be a BPM?
And Misconceptions About Holotropic Breathwork:
It's About Being Where Your Are, Not About Getting Somewhere You Ain't,
and It Is Non-Authoritarian and Non-Manipulative
30 October 1998
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Thanks for the compliment on the site.
The reason I wanted to address your message
in the Forum is because you bring out some misconceptions about a few things
that this site is very much concerned with, and you also touch on an issue
that I have some thoughts on but would like to hear more about myself.
I'll start with the latter. To be
blunt: I privately believe that "kundalini awakening" is the same
thing that we encounter in the experiential psychotherapies and call the
"activation of first-line material" (in primal therapy) or the accessing
of birth material (in pre- and perinatal psychology) or the experience
of the perinatal level of consciousness (in holotropic breathwork).
I say this because from all that I have heard of this kundalini awakening
it has the same kind of experiential components that people have described
-- and I have personally experienced -- when we encountered this level
of the psyche in our personal inner explorations in the various modalities.
One very potent example I have used in my article "A Primal Perspective
on Spirituality" (coming soon to this website, and originally published
in The Journal of Humanistic Psychology
in 1985, and then again
in Aesthema #10, published by the International Primal Association,
in 1990) comes from the autobiography of Guru Muktananda. In it he
describes a lot of the kind of physical activation (including "hopping
like a frog") that happens spontaneously to people at a certain stage of
their exploration in experiential psychotherapy.
Now, I am not trying to downplay or diminish
or negate your experience in any way. And I think it is fine for
people to "frame" their experiences in words that convey, correctly, that
these experiences are, indeed, a part of an incredible spiritual
jump forward. In fact, calling it "kundalini awakening" has a benefit
in that there are none of the connotations of sickness or neurosis that
attend its description in the other ways I've mentioned. On the other
hand, a disadvantage of its being called "kundalini awakening" is that
it holds out the possibility of spiritual one-upmanship. ("My kundalini
is awakened, how about you?") Whereas in the other modalities it
does not carry that possibility of spiritual conceit. Please don't
take this personally, I am simply talking about possibilities and what
can happen in general.
The other problem with using the term "kundalini
awakening" is similar to the problem that came up for me when as a child
and raised as a Catholic I was told that those-not-Catholic were not going
to go to heaven and were essentially doomed to fry forever in an eternal
fire when they die. That didn't make sense to me then -- How could
a merciful and just God have only one way of salvation, one that many humans
might not even hear of in a lifetime? What I am saying is that many
saints, prophets, sages, holy men and women, and enlightened souls have
never talked about having a "kundalini awakening." Were they all
phonies? Is "kundalini awakening" the one, true path, and all else
are deluded? I don't think so. I think that the cartography
of consciousness is the same for all humans (else how could we communicate
with each other, understand each other, or even be considered part of the
same species?), and that therefore what some people are calling one thing
in one tradition or modality is experienced and called something else in
another tradition or modality.
By the way, Reichians have their own term
for when the body gets hooked up to the head (becoming "the body electric");
they call the experience "organismic streaming." What these experiences,
by whatever name, all have in common is that what seems to be an "outside"
force (outside of one's will, one's thoughts) seems to "take over" the
body and all kinds of surprising movements and activating experiences occur.
All of these events are seen to be part of a natural process. (Oh
yes, another term comes to mind: Muktananda and his followers called
these inexplicable movements of the body and experiences, coming seemingly
"out of the blue," kriyas -- thus the
term for their yoga, Kriya Yoga.) They are always seen to
be somehow "cleansing" or "purifying" in nature. One feels oneself
to be most definitely in the hands of some kind of "Higher Power" who/that
has one's evolution as its purpose and has one's higher good as its agenda
-- often seeming even to direct, not only one's inner, but even outer events
and circumstances in this purpose of one's unfolding.
That being said, the other problem with
"kundalini awakening" -- in addition to the danger of it giving one a swelled
spiritual "head" -- is that it puts one in a category alienated from others
on the spiritual path, as you seem to be describing for yourself.
That is, one relegates to oneself a special category of experience -- about
which by definition no one else can relate or share in -- and one is left
out of the groups who can share their experiences under more general terms.
(Another example of spiritual awakening that is quite physical just occurred
to me, occurring even in "conservative" religions: the idea of "being
reborn," in Christ or whatever, in Christianity is often accompanied by
strong physical and psychical occurrences -- speaking in tongues or being
possessed by Holy Spirit being just two of many experiences described.)
I think that terms like "kundalini awakening"
occur because we live in a culture that predominantly believes, even in
the New Age sectors, that spirituality is supposed to be some kind of calm
(almost robotlike, Spok-like, or Data-like) and unaffected state -- somehow
totally unemotional. The typical yogi, even, is pictured as sitting
completely still, in totally quiet and unaffected meditation (quite unlike
what happens in some types of really deep meditation, like Vipassana,
for
example). Yet this kind of calmness is a description of extreme repression
and neurosis, not a really alive spirituality! We even have a Christian
savior who is never pictured as smiling or ebullient in any way.
(If Christ were really as sad and suffering as he is depicted, I do not
believe he would really have attained the God-consciousness ascribed to
him. What I believe is that Christ probably had a pretty good sense
of humor and had his followers in stitches a lot of the time.) So
when the real thing comes along, we have to come up with a new term to
describe it. The Grofs' book The Stormy Search for the Self
is a good rejoinder to the idea that spiritual aspiration is some kind
of placid lake, unaffectedness, numbness, or tea party. Unfortunately,
for every book like that of the Grofs, there are ten others put out in
the New Age, and especially by people who subscribe to the view of spiritual
evolution propounded by Ken Wilber, that ascribe some kind of "sickness"
to this kind of "stormy" spirituality and set up states of emotionless
stupor as spiritual models.
So that is my response to the second part.
The first part, the misconceptions in your letter: You state that
"Holotropic . . . encounters are for bringing up stuff, not working with
what's already up up up." You also imply that Holotropic Breathwork
involves some kind of direct manipulation. In both of these cases,
you are at total odds with the truth. Both primal therapy and Holotropic
Breathwork are about just what you are looking for. They are not
about
bringing stuff up -- if you are dealing with a qualified person in the
field. In fact, they are both about just what you are asking for:
dealing with what is already up, up, up. I don't know who you inquired
about Holotropic with, but that person clearly misled you or was somehow
totally deluded about what they claimed to know about.
Again, in my article "A Primal Perspective
on Spirituality," when it is uploaded on this site, you will see that I
describe primal therapy as about allowing a person to be most fully exactly
where they are, and that in doing so we find that they go "deeper" into
the Now . . . into what already is, is, is. Both modalities are about
total acceptance of where the person is in the Now, and they (when done
correctly) are totally nonauthoritarian, or in your terms, are totally
non-manipulative. And, indeed, both modalities root themselves in
that approach out of their findings that the energy within each individual
(one's "inner healer," one's "life force energy," "the body," the "Higher
Self") is totally unique and individual and that "It makes it very clear
who is in control." So these modalities are about the facilitator
completely getting out of the way of the person's inner process and simply
supporting the expression of what is already "up, up, up" or the expression
of that which comes up by simply "being" (in the Now) for a while.
In fact, there are a few sayings I throw around a lot that I have learned
in these modalities that indicate to what great degree they are like what
you are describing to be experiencing and wanting to share with others.
For example: "The fastest way to get to where you are going is to
be most fully exactly where you are." And, "The only way out
is all the way in." And "Whatever you are doing, do more of it."
These are my thoughts on your situation.
The upshot is that I believe you will find much more companionship on your
spiritual path when you actually put yourself in situations like actual
Holotropic Breathwork workshops, rather than just inquiring and finding
out secondhand what it might be like. The same goes for primal
therapy, though I would not recommend you try that path first as there
are too many manipulative therapists out there who are calling what they
do "primal." You have a much greater chance of being confirmed in
your misconceptions if you go to a primal practitioner than to a Holotropic
Breathwork one.
So my answer is that there are many more
places out there where you can BE with people, together. But you
do have to experience these things firsthand. I hope I have helped
to clear up some of the misinformation you received about Holotropic Breathwork.
But I would expect that there are other avenues for finding what you want
that I am not aware of. So I invite readers to contact you directly
or to write their suggestions to me, to be posted in this Forum, whichever
is deemed most appropriate. Also, I invite other perspectives on
the issues raised here.
If comments are to be directed to me, click
on mickel@primalspirit.com
-- let me know if you would like it addressed to the Forum.
If to Howard directly, as above, click on HowardCush@aol.com.
Good luck to you, Howard. Thanks for
sharing, and I'm wishing you much inspiration in the writing of what sounds
to be a very provocative and interesting book.
Howard
Responds; More Questions About Experiential Psychotherapy
31 October 1998 (uploaded
1 November 1998)
Mickel,
I think you make some interesting points.
A question: Do people in these therapies
you mention have phenomena (like hopping, etc.) that last for long
periods of time, like years?
And also, just to clarify, the response I got
about a breath workshop was from the coordinator of the annual Stan Grof/Jack
Kornfield event in Yucca Valley. I also called Stan's office in my
home town of Mill Valley to see if he would consult with me about some
of the hairier aspects of my experience, but I was told he won't see individuals.
So there you go.
Thanks, Howard
HowardCush@aol.com
The Spiritual Path is Radically
Unique to the Individual;
The Benefit of Grof's Theoretical Framework Is That It is Broad Enough
to Include so Much of the Diversity of Spiritual Experience; Other Comments
About Holotropic Breathwork
1 November 1998
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
You ask if people in the therapies I've
mentioned have phenomena (like hopping, etc.) that last for long periods
of time, like years? My answer -- without a doubt -- Absolutely!!
I have my own personal experience to attest
to that; as well as many reports from other inner explorers. The
only thing I would say to qualify that is that this is not to say that
the spiritual path for those of us who use nonordinary states to access
what is actually directly on the front burner of our consciousness is to
now be thought of as some kind of circus of exotic experiences. For
some people, it is; for others, it is less so. And for others, well.
. . .
What I'm trying to say more than anything
is that each person's path is unique in the most radical sense of that
term. There are so many differences in what kinds of things people
need to experience in order to "process" or "purify" themselves or to "spiritually
evolve." I think a great advantage of Stanislav Grof's theoretical
framework for consciousness -- the "cartography of consciousness," as he
puts it -- is that it is so all-encompassing; it is a framework that contains
the spiritual experiences of all the spiritual traditions of the world,
as reported, as well as many only recently being discussed and experienced,
as far as we know.
It can do this because his framework is
based on so many tens of thousands of peoples' experiences, thousands of
whom he personally witnessed and facilitated, to which he adds his study
of a vast array of spiritual knowledge from the spiritual traditions of
the world -- including the shamanic as well as the mystical traditions
of the "advanced" cultures, not to mention his thorough training and background
in both traditional psychoanalysis as well as transpersonal psychology
(which field his work helped to establish and of which he is a founder
and one of the main theoreticians). That is another reason that Grof's
training program for Holotropic Breathwork facilitators contains so much
emphasis on the facilitator not interfering in the client's experience,
why the modality is so radically nonauthoritarian and non-manipulative.
I.e., because each person's path is SO unique, it requires that facilitators
be completely unattached to what the client may experience, be completely
willing to let it unfold however it may happen to in the client, and be
willing to relegate oneself to the role of only a facilitator
of
whatever the person's experience may be, and not that of a director,
attempting to be some kind of authority knowing which direction the client's
experience should be going in, or whatever.
Well, enough about that, as for your comment
that the information about Holotropic Breathwork being about "bringing
things up" and being manipulative came from the coordinator of the annual
Stan Grof/Jack Kornfield event in Yucca Valley, let me say the following:
I wonder if the coordinator was simply an
administrative person or was a trained holotropic breathwork facilitator.
If the former, then it is understandable, since there is so much distortion
about these modalities by people from the outside. [I happened to
see a movie the night before last on a major network that depicted what
looked like a Holotropic Breathwork workshop. But the group was called
a "cult," and the facilitator's motives were depicted as including the
seduction of a married woman in the group. So this is the kind of
projection we have to deal with in putting this work out there into a world
that is so cut off from its natural experience, whether in nonordinary
or ordinary states of consciousness.]
If the latter -- that the person was a trained
holotropic breathwork facilitator -- then that person may have inadvertently
given you a wrong impression. Also some breathwork facilitators have
gotten through the training and somehow managed to hang onto some of their
previous manipulative ways, consciously or unconsciously; but the training
is certainly geared toward doing everything possible for certified facilitators
to have gotten the point that it is the inner healer that is the "therapist."
Certainly the Holotropic training run by Grof Transpersonal Training is
uniform in this regard, and that is why I said Holotropic Breathwork is
a safer bet for finding non-manipulative facilitators than is primal therapy
-- which has no singular training program and which is therefore practiced,
purportedly, by therapists trained (or not trained) in a wide variety of
ways and who have a diverse array of ideas as to how it is to be practiced.
And as for the using the terms "bringing
things up," well, some people still talk in these terms, which
gives a wrong impression. Partly
it could be that occurs because the breathwork comes out of the research
with psychedelics, and many people think that drugs "bring things up."
But even here they are wrong. Because the literature on psychedelics
point out over and over that they, LSD in particular, simply catalyze what
is already going on. By this I mean that they simply keep you from
being able to hide from or deny what is right in front of you (your very
experience), which denial, unfortunately because of people having defenses
against their reality and their experience, is the common mode of being.
Also, the Kornfield/Grof workshop is not
typical holotropic breathwork, I believe, as it involves some Vipassana
meditation. It is not the ideal event to represent holotropic breathwork,
I think. Though I may be wrong about it as I've never attended that particular
workshop and have only heard about it secondhand [somebody please correct
me if I'm wrong about it's being a different-than-regular-holotropic kind
of workshop].
You also say you could not get Stan Grof
to consult with you personally. I am not surprised in the least,
as he is constantly traveling worldwide doing trainings, along with writing
books, and keeping up with a schedule and correspondence that people who
know him wonder how he is able to maintain. So Stan is definitely
too busy to do much more than what he is now doing. But you live
in an area where there are literally hundreds of holotropic breathwork
facilitators. You can check out the two Breathwork sites in my "groovy
links" section, and you can even e-mail Grof, actually his secretary, for
information about who to speak with by clicking on the e-mail link that
is at the bottom of Grof's article on my site.
I hope this has been helpful. Once
again, good luck. And feel free to drop me an electronic line to
let me know how things are fairing with you.
Regards,
Mickel
12 August 1998 (uploaded 24
January 1999)
Dear Mickel Adzema,
I like your piece a great deal. I am
certain I suffered no abuse as a child but I've almost always felt "more
sensitive" and often "sicker" than "regular people." Still do, even
though I also self-identify as very sane. I mean, sanity in a society
that seems dysfunctional is an intriguing idea, as I'm sure you are aware.
More than most of my associates I seem to gain a great deal from regular
visits to the well of childhood and adolescent pain, which is, now at age
50, more of a colleague or resource than a demon.
I also happen to teach child development at
Solano Community College, in the San Francisco Bay Area. Thank you
for your article. I was sent it by a friend.
Barry Albert Bussewitz
barryb@svn.net
Instructor in Human Development and Early
Childhood Education
Solano Community College
24 January 1999
Mickel Adzema's (WebGuy's) Response:
Barry,
Thanks for your kind remarks about my musepaper,
and I'm happy to hear that your unconscious pain is now a colleague or
resource now -- which is as it should be. It reminds me of a section
in my recently completed book (Apocalypse,
Or New Age?), titled "Responses
to the Perinatal.", which is available on this website. One quote
that is pertinent: "Much of what is interesting in art is done this
way: The deeper fear-evoking material is allowed to come in and enrich,
enliven, freshen with new ideas and perspectives, stimulate, and invigorate
the creative production."
You might want to check it out.
Also, I'm sure that your sensitivity ("sickness")
has had a lot to do with your choice of career, and I would bet it allows
you to perform better and be more helpful in your role. The idea
of "the wounded shaman" is relevant here.
A sidenote: Since you use the word
sensitive
to
describe yourself, it might interest you to know that the name of our business,
SSILLY God Ventures, employs an acronym standing for "Silly Sensitives
In Love with Life and Yearning for God." As you alluded to above,
what's so great about being "sane" in an "insane" society? Much better
to be "sensitive," even if it hurts sometimes. Thanks again for sharing.
Warm regards,
Mickel
-
In Appreciation
of "Drugs, Generations, Part 2"
-
30 March 1998 (uploaded 24 January 1999)